Comments on: “Geek ghettoes”: how do we make sense of this issue? http://www.blindside.org.uk/2007/04/23/geek-ghettoes-how-do-we-make-sense-of-this-issue/ What's going to go wrong in our e-enabled world? Sat, 22 Nov 2008 04:43:27 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.1 By: wendyg http://www.blindside.org.uk/2007/04/23/geek-ghettoes-how-do-we-make-sense-of-this-issue/#comment-174 wendyg Fri, 27 Apr 2007 11:18:06 +0000 http://www.blindside.org.uk/2007/04/23/geek-ghettoes-how-do-we-make-sense-of-this-issue/#comment-174 But: - you do not have to understand crypto to understand that an algorithm that withstands the world's brightest cryptanalysts banging on it is a better bet than one that doesn't, just as you do not have to understand aeronautics, you just have to trust the *safety engineers* who examine the plane and pronounce it flightworthy. - and in order to trust the safety engineers you trust the government agency that employs them, checks their credentials, and tests their knowledge. It seems to me that we trust things we don't understand by moving up levels of abstraction until we reach one we *do* understand, and then it's just turtles all the way down. wg But:

- you do not have to understand crypto to understand that an algorithm that withstands the world’s brightest cryptanalysts banging on it is a better bet than one that doesn’t, just as you do not have to understand aeronautics, you just have to trust the *safety engineers* who examine the plane and pronounce it flightworthy.

- and in order to trust the safety engineers you trust the government agency that employs them, checks their credentials, and tests their knowledge.

It seems to me that we trust things we don’t understand by moving up levels of abstraction until we reach one we *do* understand, and then it’s just turtles all the way down.

wg

]]> By: William Heath http://www.blindside.org.uk/2007/04/23/geek-ghettoes-how-do-we-make-sense-of-this-issue/#comment-172 William Heath Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:54:29 +0000 http://www.blindside.org.uk/2007/04/23/geek-ghettoes-how-do-we-make-sense-of-this-issue/#comment-172 Yes, crypto is where this hit me strongest. But there's also a real digital divide between those comfortable with online social networking, and those who "Dont Get It" - eg in school social life etc. Yes, crypto is where this hit me strongest. But there’s also a real digital divide between those comfortable with online social networking, and those who “Dont Get It” - eg in school social life etc.

]]> By: Ian Brown http://www.blindside.org.uk/2007/04/23/geek-ghettoes-how-do-we-make-sense-of-this-issue/#comment-171 Ian Brown Wed, 25 Apr 2007 08:56:06 +0000 http://www.blindside.org.uk/2007/04/23/geek-ghettoes-how-do-we-make-sense-of-this-issue/#comment-171 So in fact, it's maths geek ghettoes you're worried about :) So in fact, it’s maths geek ghettoes you’re worried about :)

]]> By: Caspar http://www.blindside.org.uk/2007/04/23/geek-ghettoes-how-do-we-make-sense-of-this-issue/#comment-170 Caspar Wed, 25 Apr 2007 08:13:53 +0000 http://www.blindside.org.uk/2007/04/23/geek-ghettoes-how-do-we-make-sense-of-this-issue/#comment-170 On the etymology of geek: (http://www.bartleby.com/61/0/G0070000.html) ...The circus sideshow is the source of the word geek, “a performer who engaged in bizarre acts, such as biting the head off a live chicken.” (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geek) The social and rather derogatory connotations of the word make it particularly difficult to define. The difference between the terms "geek" and "nerd" is widely disputed, as the latter might be identified as someone who is unusually intelligent, and the former as someone who has an eccentric interest towards a certain category or topic. On the etymology of geek:

(http://www.bartleby.com/61/0/G0070000.html)
…The circus sideshow is the source of the word geek, “a performer who engaged in bizarre acts, such as biting the head off a live chicken.”

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geek)
The social and rather derogatory connotations of the word make it particularly difficult to define. The difference between the terms “geek” and “nerd” is widely disputed, as the latter might be identified as someone who is unusually intelligent, and the former as someone who has an eccentric interest towards a certain category or topic.

]]> By: William Heath http://www.blindside.org.uk/2007/04/23/geek-ghettoes-how-do-we-make-sense-of-this-issue/#comment-168 William Heath Tue, 24 Apr 2007 16:44:08 +0000 http://www.blindside.org.uk/2007/04/23/geek-ghettoes-how-do-we-make-sense-of-this-issue/#comment-168 I suppose my strongest experience of <blockquote>technology continuing to advance beyond the understanding of any but the most dedicated experts leading to misunderstanding and misuse of novel technologies</blockquote>was coming across the work of Stefan Brands. His book has the clearest imaginable statement of the problem of maintaining our privacy in a world of online transactions that leave traces. Furthermore meeting him means for all sorts of reasons he's someone whose intention on my behalf I'm happy to trust. So if he's right that he has cracked this problem, I want public services to use his techniques. BUT...from chapter 2 of his book I dont even understand the symbols he uses, let alone the equations and the overall feasibility of what he proposes. This proves to me that in future we will have to trust people whose work we do not understand (rather like we fly in planes without understanding the principles of aeronautics). I suppose my strongest experience of
technology continuing to advance beyond the understanding of any but the most dedicated experts leading to misunderstanding and misuse of novel technologies

was coming across the work of Stefan Brands. His book has the clearest imaginable statement of the problem of maintaining our privacy in a world of online transactions that leave traces. Furthermore meeting him means for all sorts of reasons he’s someone whose intention on my behalf I’m happy to trust. So if he’s right that he has cracked this problem, I want public services to use his techniques.

BUT…from chapter 2 of his book I dont even understand the symbols he uses, let alone the equations and the overall feasibility of what he proposes. This proves to me that in future we will have to trust people whose work we do not understand (rather like we fly in planes without understanding the principles of aeronautics).

]]> By: Stefan Magdalinski http://www.blindside.org.uk/2007/04/23/geek-ghettoes-how-do-we-make-sense-of-this-issue/#comment-167 Stefan Magdalinski Tue, 24 Apr 2007 08:48:55 +0000 http://www.blindside.org.uk/2007/04/23/geek-ghettoes-how-do-we-make-sense-of-this-issue/#comment-167 If I remember rightly this was a common fear back in the 70s/80s, when being a geek actually meant that you had some knowledge/skills/tools/capabilities that were not available to masses. Nowadays programming is a commoditized activity almost entirely about building tools that put technological power into everybody's hands. You may have heard of the World Wide Web, the largest geek ghetto on earth, or its popular developing world cousin, mobile telephony. Luddite nonsense, IMHO. (see also, digital divide) If I remember rightly this was a common fear back in the 70s/80s, when being a geek actually meant that you had some knowledge/skills/tools/capabilities that were not available to masses. Nowadays programming is a commoditized activity almost entirely about building tools that put technological power into everybody’s hands. You may have heard of the World Wide Web, the largest geek ghetto on earth, or its popular developing world cousin, mobile telephony.

Luddite nonsense, IMHO. (see also, digital divide)

]]> By: William Heath http://www.blindside.org.uk/2007/04/23/geek-ghettoes-how-do-we-make-sense-of-this-issue/#comment-166 William Heath Tue, 24 Apr 2007 08:09:09 +0000 http://www.blindside.org.uk/2007/04/23/geek-ghettoes-how-do-we-make-sense-of-this-issue/#comment-166 Sorry. Showing my combination of age and ignorance :-) Running the planet is very different from being tasked with keeping it running. I dont see the geeks as holding the power - that's a different skill set. They might be a priestly elite I suppose. Or just treated akin to the people who keep the lifts running. What would that feel like? It might feel like you know all the answers but no-one else gets it or wants to listen to you. Sound familiar? Sorry. Showing my combination of age and ignorance :-)

Running the planet is very different from being tasked with keeping it running. I dont see the geeks as holding the power - that’s a different skill set. They might be a priestly elite I suppose. Or just treated akin to the people who keep the lifts running.

What would that feel like? It might feel like you know all the answers but no-one else gets it or wants to listen to you. Sound familiar?

]]> By: wendyg http://www.blindside.org.uk/2007/04/23/geek-ghettoes-how-do-we-make-sense-of-this-issue/#comment-165 wendyg Mon, 23 Apr 2007 22:53:09 +0000 http://www.blindside.org.uk/2007/04/23/geek-ghettoes-how-do-we-make-sense-of-this-issue/#comment-165 You can't really be marginalized if you run the planet. Also, "MUDs"? How outdated. You mean Second Life, which is a testbed now for a lot of geeks and developers - as well as being an almost-mainstream entertainment zone. wg You can’t really be marginalized if you run the planet.

Also, “MUDs”? How outdated. You mean Second Life, which is a testbed now for a lot of geeks and developers - as well as being an almost-mainstream entertainment zone.

wg

]]> By: Chris Rimmer http://www.blindside.org.uk/2007/04/23/geek-ghettoes-how-do-we-make-sense-of-this-issue/#comment-164 Chris Rimmer Mon, 23 Apr 2007 20:08:31 +0000 http://www.blindside.org.uk/2007/04/23/geek-ghettoes-how-do-we-make-sense-of-this-issue/#comment-164 I'm quite happy to be termed a geek. In fact I encourage some of my fellow geeks to stop denying their true nature and come out of the closet. I’m quite happy to be termed a geek. In fact I encourage some of my fellow geeks to stop denying their true nature and come out of the closet.

]]> By: William Heath http://www.blindside.org.uk/2007/04/23/geek-ghettoes-how-do-we-make-sense-of-this-issue/#comment-163 William Heath Mon, 23 Apr 2007 18:30:06 +0000 http://www.blindside.org.uk/2007/04/23/geek-ghettoes-how-do-we-make-sense-of-this-issue/#comment-163 Perhaps I should check also - is my usage of the g-word (which I deem a mark of respect) generally acceptable, or disrespectful? Perhaps I should check also - is my usage of the g-word (which I deem a mark of respect) generally acceptable, or disrespectful?

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